20:01:10 <zzz> 7) Allow marketplaces on eepsite registration services? (zab)
20:01:13 <zzz> 0) hi
20:01:14 <zzz> 1) http://salt.i2p console home page request (carried over from Sept. 10 meeting)
20:01:18 <dg> hi
20:01:18 <iRelay> Title: salted (at salt.i2p)
20:01:20 <dg> efkt_:
20:01:25 <zzz> efkt_, are you here?
20:01:25 <kytv> +1 for salt
20:01:36 <iRelay> Title: no.i2p registration service (at no.i2p)
20:01:37 <efkt_> Hi everyone. Yes I'm here.
20:01:41 <iRelay> Title: zzz.i2p: Console Home Page Icons (at zzz.i2p)
20:01:44 <iRelay> Title: salted (at salt.i2p)
20:02:20 <topiltzin> +1 for salt
20:02:38 <dg> +1 for salt
20:02:43 <zzz> I only have one question - where does the name come from,does it mean "salt" or does it stand for something? should it be translated?
20:03:00 <dg> Salt's a great community resource and efkt_ is extremely welcoming. I don't have a bad word to say about him :)
20:04:26 <efkt_> zzz: It really doesn't stand for anything. Unfortunately some security-thing startup recently opted to use "Salt" as well. The idea behind the name was: NaCl crypto, salted hashes as the "thematic choice"
20:05:07 <efkt_> Just having fun is all.
20:05:38 <efkt_> It leads to a lot of questions "what the hell is salt?" Why salt?
20:07:44 <efkt_> As for translation, I don't see that it would be useful to call it something other than what is used for the short url
20:07:47 <zzz> so would we translate it in the console or not?
20:07:57 <str4d> +1 for salt
20:08:51 <str4d> "take everything you read on I2P with a pinch of salt"
20:09:09 <dg> hah
20:09:19 <efkt_> Haha. RN has ceaseless salt jokes.
20:11:36 <zzz> ok. I noticed the icon you submitted doesn't have a transparent part. It might look better if it did. Or maybe not. May depend on the theme
20:11:36 <zzz> if you're happy with the icon it's fine I guess
20:11:36 <zzz> hearing no objections I think that's it for 1). I'll check it in.
20:11:36 <zzz> moving on to 2) no.i2p - is Meeh here?
20:11:42 <str4d> Perhaps it should be translated.
20:17:33 <zzz> in the short term, only generating a public key, storing your private key somewhere safe, and checking it in
20:17:53 <zzz> if me and kytv get hit by a bus, then you would be the one building and signing the releaase
20:18:07 <zzz> which is basically running 'ant release'
20:18:08 <dg> I can do it also then. I won't be able to take responsibility for writing code though.
20:18:33 <zzz> writing release notes, distributing the files, starting torrents, writing the news are all related activities
20:18:34 <dg> So, please look both ways before crossing!
20:19:00 <zzz> basically you'd be a packager / release manager
20:19:23 <dg> yeah, I can do this.
20:19:41 <zzz> I think str4d would be well-suited
20:20:40 <zzz> dg have you done much with monotone? do you have checkin privs now?
20:21:14 <dg> zzz: I've not had checkin privs to i2p.i2p and I'm not a mtn pro. I get it enough to use it but advanced trickery is beyond me.
20:21:22 <dg> If str4d is more appropriate, that's fine.
20:41:16 <zzz> ok then let's ask welterde_ to help out here
20:41:49 <zzz> ok thx for the update str4d. anything else on 5) ?
20:42:06 <str4d> It's *much* simpler than current :-P
20:42:13 <str4d> kytv: thanks - which script?
20:42:16 <str4d> (but I'm done with 5)
20:42:25 <zzz> bah. I got my sed script :)
20:42:25 <str4d> Oh, one other point:
20:42:34 <zzz> 6) Trac update - thanks to Meeh and kytv (brief)
20:42:40 <str4d> I want us to think about the /research page
20:42:42 <kytv> (yw)
20:43:11 <str4d> Just putting the thought out.
20:43:32 <kytv> str4d: it's a modification of the one in i2p.www.revamp that I made for future appliance. I can pastebin it later.
20:43:35 <zzz> I just put this on the agenda to thank kytv and his helpers Meeh and welterde_ for moving, hosting, upgrading, managing, etc and getting it back up
20:43:54 * dg thanks
20:44:18 <str4d> kytv++
20:44:20 <zzz> it's an important resource that got hammered by spam and then disabled by me and then broken by kytv, but we won't mention that part since we're thanking him...
20:44:41 <efkt_> bwahaha
20:44:52 * str4d had plans to help, until kytv sabotaged those plans and took the glory for himself ;-P
20:45:17 <zzz> oh yeah sorry str4d you did do quite a lot too in the early stages
20:45:42 <zzz> ok enough of that, back to the beatings
20:45:47 <zzz> 7) Allow marketplaces on eepsite registration services? (zab)
20:46:18 <zzz> I have 3 of them in the stats.i2p queue, everybody piling in after the silk road thing
20:46:49 <str4d> Enforcing this is not trivial - we only know if the person registering makes it obvious in the domain or the about description.
20:46:51 <dg> I don't think anybody will target $registrar for saying yes
20:46:53 <zzz> we had several silkroad* registrations last year, I approved them at the time, none were around for long
20:46:57 <Meeh> sorry I'm late, but here now
20:47:15 <zzz> Meeh will be back to you shortly, we are on 7)
20:47:21 <Meeh> np
20:47:52 <zzz> zab what would you like to say about this
20:48:00 <zzz> ^^ topiltzin
20:48:00 <topiltzin> In the interest of full disclosure, I have significant investment in bitcoin. So I'm naturally supportive of anything that promotes use of bitcoin
20:48:00 <zzz> enforcing is never a sure thing
20:48:26 <topiltzin> in fact, part of the reason I'm working on i2p is to prepare for a possible future where anonymous marketplaces cannot use tor anymore
20:48:42 <topiltzin> </end full disclosure>
20:49:03 <zzz> I could reject either on 1) its illegal 2) brings attention we dont need or 3) i2p really isnt safe enough for markets
20:49:13 <zzz> but all those are shaky reasons
20:49:18 <dg> If 3), I don't know what we are safe for
20:49:21 <str4d> But on the assumption that we can discover which domains are for marketplaces:
20:49:22 <str4d> topiltzin ^
20:49:35 <dg> I don't agree with ever saying "Hey, $group, come to us! We're like, safe and things!" but a little confidence is good too
20:49:49 <Pseudonemo> as regards public perception, policies can help, even if they aren't perfectly enforcible, imo
20:50:01 <topiltzin> 3) is something the operators of the marketplaces need to decide for themselves
20:50:45 <Meeh> I agree with you there topiltzin, the operators choose
20:50:46 <topiltzin> if 2) will happen it will happen regardless of addressbook policy
20:50:49 <zzz> fyi the three I'm sitting on are silkroadreloaded.i2p, market.i2p, and freemart.i2p - you can jump to all thru stats.i2p
20:51:02 <welterde_> still unable to figure out why restart is not working?
20:51:35 <welterde_> (just arrived)
20:52:00 <topiltzin> re 1) - that's the interesting one. I suggest the following policy: if a market place advertises $ILLEGAL_ACTIVITY then it does not indexed
20:52:08 <str4d> welterde_: I haven't had time to investigate it.
20:52:18 <topiltzin> but a market that simply says "anonymous marketplace" should not be banned automatically
20:52:28 <welterde_> ic
20:52:32 <str4d> +1 on re 1)
20:52:34 <dg> most things here are anonymous
20:52:40 <efkt_> fwiw I think its reasonable to not outright ban all marketplaces and use a case-by-case basis, disallowing support for those who wish to use stats.i2p for drugs, assassination, arms, etc focusing on what is unsavory and not neccessarily what is illegal.
20:52:45 <Pseudonemo> I think topiltzin's suggestion is a reasonable compromise, fwiw
20:52:59 <str4d> stats.i2p is a voluntary service, not an "official" addressbook.
20:53:14 <zzz> I find it hard to get too worked up about drugs. If they're advertising CP or contract killings that's another story.
20:53:27 * dg nods
20:53:35 <str4d> Mmm.
20:53:43 <Pseudonemo> str4d: it's still linked on the router console, which would be considered a tacit endorsement by many
20:53:51 <Meeh> agreed
20:54:00 <str4d> IMHO the standard sort of T&C we require for routerconsole would be fine.
20:54:13 <dg> Pseudonemo: A link to a site that doesnt' really link to but can be contacted for info on a site people MAY not like? no
20:54:32 <Pseudonemo> fair enough
20:54:43 <zzz> I thnk I'll treat markets like forums and torrent sites, i.e. post a TOS and then I'll decide
20:54:48 <str4d> (but that does not mean that a marketplace would be accepted for routerconsole, that is a separate decision)
20:56:05 <topiltzin> that's fine. It would help if you publish some guidelines on what will NOT get indexed
20:56:12 <zzz> thanks guys for your thoughts. this is more my problem than a project issue and I needed some advice.
20:57:07 <dg> if you feel uneasy about it, you are within your rights not to allow them zzz
20:57:24 <dg> but i think it's ok as long as it's not crossing any moral lines
20:57:54 <zzz> it's all on http://stats.i2p/i2p/addkey.html - I guess I would just add 'markets' to the line about forums, trackers, file + image hosts...
20:57:54 <zzz> 2a) Add to default i2ptunnel jump list
20:57:54 <zzz> 2b) Add to recommended addressbook subscriptions on FAQ
20:57:56 <zzz> 2c) Add to registration help text on eepsite help
20:58:08 <iRelay> Title: Add a Key (at stats.i2p)
20:58:13 <zzz> take it away Meeh what you got for us?
20:58:24 <iRelay> Title: no.i2p registration service (at no.i2p)
20:59:06 <Meeh> well, I've setup a registration service with a TOS somewhat the same as stats.i2p, to help "decentralize" the naming service in I2P if needed
20:59:16 <zzz> ping Meeh
20:59:36 <Meeh> doesn't my messages get trough?
21:01:45 <str4d> I hear ya
21:01:45 <Meeh> ok good, I checked freenode so iRelay does too
21:01:45 <zzz> got it, lag
21:01:45 <zzz> yeah we really need more of everything and my registration service really stands out by itself
21:01:45 <zzz> just checked, I set it up in January of 2008 after orion.i2p vanished (snif)
21:02:08 <Meeh> yupp, so that's why I added it, to help "decentralize" it if needed
21:02:27 <zzz> slow's inr.i2p service is great but his anything-goes policy isn't compatible with ours
21:02:40 <Meeh> other than that I haven't thought much on it, so if people want to contribute with ideas, go ahead
21:02:51 <zzz> if you can work together on his software base, but have something managed, that's great
21:04:56 <dg> fwiw, inr.i2p is a thing.
21:05:24 <zzz> anybody reviewed Meeh's TOS or have any thoughts?
21:05:24 <topiltzin> I looked briefly, looked like copy-pasta of yours
21:05:24 <Meeh> yes, I will publish my changes. I've updated it to django 1.5 and added export-alive.txt "view" support
21:05:24 <topiltzin> +1 on no.i2p based on nothing but general Meeh awesomeness :)
21:05:24 <Meeh> topiltzin: yes, it was copy paste :P
21:05:24 <zzz> well, Meeh actually you have two pastas. one of slow's on no.i2p and one of mine on no.i2p/tos/
21:05:24 <Meeh> I wrote some myself, and copied most of it, to make it as close to the official rules as possible, since I guessed zzz followed them closely
21:05:24 <Meeh> yea, a mix
21:05:24 <Meeh> can change it ofc
21:05:26 <efkt_> +1 for no.i2p. Giving people more jump links and subscriptions is a plus. If there will be more sites registered with no.i2p I think it would be helpful to inform existing userbase about such a change.
21:05:45 <Meeh> I didn't remove the policies that was "acceptable" from the original source
21:05:46 <zzz> is it confusing to have overlapping stuff in two places?
21:05:51 <zzz> actually 3 with /postkey/
21:06:21 <Meeh> ok, I should fix that. but question is then, which is the best?
21:06:30 <Meeh> or, the most agreeable
21:06:37 <Meeh> which I can work more on
21:06:40 <zzz> speaking from experience you have to shout the TOS loud and clear
21:07:17 <zzz> fyi I'm getting about 75/month and rejecting about 3-5/month
21:07:54 <zzz> any objections to 2a) or 2b) or 2c) ?
21:08:16 <zzz> if not Meeh please do all the checkins yourself
21:08:23 <Meeh> ok, I get about 1-2 a week, but often they double register
21:08:26 <Meeh> both with you and me
21:08:32 <Meeh> for example silkroadreloaded
21:09:02 <zzz> anybody have anything else while I warm up the baffer?
21:10:21 <efkt_> zzz: dg: kytv: topiltzin: str4d: Thank you. It means a lot to have support.
21:10:56 <dg> Maybe we should talk about the roadmap next time and our plans.
21:10:56 <kytv> hosting for our downloads, unless there's already a plan, needs to be fleshed out.
21:10:56 <Meeh> ok. Then we say add to trunk? (no.i2p)
21:10:56 <Meeh> seems like we're on a new topic already :P
21:10:56 <kytv> +1 for no.i2p (yes, add to trunk)
21:11:05 <zzz> oh, I'll note that I wrote down some rather obvious meeting policies on http://zzz.i2p/topics/1491 to make it clear anybody can schedule a meeting for anything at any time
