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+20:00:54 <zzz> http://zzz.i2p/topics/1490 - 15 minutes max per item, 5 minutes for brief items
+20:00:54 <zzz> 0) hi
+20:00:54 <zzz> 1) http://salt.i2p console home page request (carried over from Sept. 10 meeting)
+20:00:55 <zzz> 2) http://no.i2p services request (Meeh)
+20:00:55 <zzz> 2a) Add to default i2ptunnel jump list
+20:00:55 <zzz> 2b) Add to recommended addressbook subscriptions on FAQ
+20:00:57 <zzz> 2c) Add to registration help text on eepsite help
+20:00:59 <zzz> 3) Additional backup release signer - Need new su3 keys, HH hasn't added his yet, do we need another person?
+20:01:02 <zzz> 4) Console home page icons needed http://zzz.i2p/topics/1492 (brief)
+20:01:04 <zzz> 5) Website revamp (str4d) (brief)
+20:01:08 <zzz> 6) Trac update - thanks to Meeh and kytv (brief)
+20:01:09 <iRelay> Title: zzz.i2p: Meeting Tues. Oct. 22 8 PM UTC (at zzz.i2p)
+20:01:10 <zzz> 7) Allow marketplaces on eepsite registration services? (zab)
+20:01:13 <zzz> 0) hi
+20:01:14 <zzz> 1) http://salt.i2p console home page request (carried over from Sept. 10 meeting)
+20:01:18 <dg> hi
+20:01:18 <iRelay> Title: salted (at salt.i2p)
+20:01:20 <dg> efkt_:
+20:01:25 <zzz> efkt_, are you here?
+20:01:25 <kytv> +1 for salt
+20:01:36 <iRelay> Title: no.i2p registration service (at no.i2p)
+20:01:37 <efkt_> Hi everyone. Yes I'm here.
+20:01:41 <iRelay> Title: zzz.i2p: Console Home Page Icons (at zzz.i2p)
+20:01:44 <iRelay> Title: salted (at salt.i2p)
+20:02:20 <topiltzin> +1 for salt
+20:02:38 <dg> +1 for salt
+20:02:43 <zzz> I only have one question - where does the name come from,does it mean "salt" or does it stand for something? should it be translated?
+20:03:00 <dg> Salt's a great community resource and efkt_ is extremely welcoming. I don't have a bad word to say about him :)
+20:04:26 <efkt_> zzz: It really doesn't stand for anything. Unfortunately some security-thing startup recently opted to use "Salt" as well. The idea behind the name was: NaCl crypto, salted hashes as the "thematic choice"
+20:05:07 <efkt_> Just having fun is all.
+20:05:38 <efkt_> It leads to a lot of questions "what the hell is salt?" Why salt?
+20:07:44 <efkt_> As for translation, I don't see that it would be useful to call it something other than what is used for the short url
+20:07:47 <zzz> so would we translate it in the console or not?
+20:07:57 <str4d> +1 for salt
+20:08:51 <str4d> "take everything you read on I2P with a pinch of salt"
+20:09:09 <dg> hah
+20:09:19 <efkt_> Haha. RN has ceaseless salt jokes.
+20:11:36 <zzz> ok. I noticed the icon you submitted doesn't have a transparent part. It might look better if it did. Or maybe not. May depend on the theme
+20:11:36 <zzz> if you're happy with the icon it's fine I guess
+20:11:36 <zzz> hearing no objections I think that's it for 1). I'll check it in.
+20:11:36 <zzz> moving on to 2) no.i2p - is Meeh here?
+20:11:42 <str4d> Perhaps it should be translated.
+20:17:33 <zzz> in the short term, only generating a public key, storing your private key somewhere safe, and checking it in
+20:17:53 <zzz> if me and kytv get hit by a bus, then you would be the one building and signing the releaase
+20:18:07 <zzz> which is basically running 'ant release'
+20:18:08 <dg> I can do it also then. I won't be able to take responsibility for writing code though.
+20:18:33 <zzz> writing release notes, distributing the files, starting torrents, writing the news are all related activities
+20:18:34 <dg> So, please look both ways before crossing!
+20:19:00 <zzz> basically you'd be a packager / release manager
+20:19:23 <dg> yeah, I can do this.
+20:19:41 <zzz> I think str4d would be well-suited
+20:20:40 <zzz> dg have you done much with monotone? do you have checkin privs now?
+20:21:14 <dg> zzz: I've not had checkin privs to i2p.i2p and I'm not a mtn pro. I get it enough to use it but advanced trickery is beyond me.
+20:21:22 <dg> If str4d is more appropriate, that's fine.
+20:21:50 <zzz> other acks/nacks on str4d ?
+20:29:18 <kytv@kytv> ffs, I'll relay:
+20:30:12 <kytv@kytv> http://pastethis.i2p/show/5965
+20:30:13 <iRelay@kytv> Title: Paste #5965 | LodgeIt! (at pastethis.i2p)
+20:30:14 <kytv@kytv> bah
+20:30:32 <dg> welcome back
+20:30:43 <zzz> ok
+20:30:44 <zzz> repost
+20:30:50 <zzz> hearing no objection let's welcome str4d as our newest backup release signer
+20:30:55 <zzz> str4d, kytv or I can help you generate your keys and check them in
+20:31:03 <zzz> excellent. I'm always worried about the bus.
+20:31:06 <zzz> 4) Console home page icons needed http://zzz.i2p/topics/1492 (brief)
+20:31:12 <zzz> just wanted to mention the icons thing here, to highlight postman badger sponge eche|on kytv et al
+20:31:20 <iRelay> Title: zzz.i2p: Console Home Page Icons (at zzz.i2p)
+20:31:41 <zzz> pick or design an icon or we will pick one for you
+20:32:01 <zzz> you have a couple weeks
+20:32:17 <zzz> thanks to str4d for his detailed post on what is in fux
+20:32:32 <zzz> anybody else have anything to say about this?
+20:32:49 * kytv is indifferent
+20:33:11 <zzz> ok moving on
+20:33:11 <dg> it'd be nice to have a prettier set of icons. I like the fux set. that's all.
+20:33:12 <zzz> 5) Website revamp (str4d) (brief)
+20:33:33 <zzz> str4d, what's the status and what's blocking progress?
+20:33:57 <str4d> Status: .py files are not updating for some reason (they were)
+20:34:22 <str4d> When a .py file updates, the webserver needs to be restarted, but the script to do that has stopped working.
+20:34:46 <str4d> Other than that, not much.
+20:35:28 <str4d> CSS issues were shown on IE, it looks like on the frontpage the BG image is not displaying, but I can't test.
+20:35:28 <zzz> you need welterde_ or just time?
+20:35:33 <topiltzin> revamp site has issues with IE{7,8}. IE9 is untested. I don't know if we care about that.
+20:35:57 <topiltzin> IE10 works fine so I'm inclined to not worry about the older versions
+20:36:05 <str4d> On non-frontpage pages, IE{7,8} is terrible.
+20:36:49 <str4d> But that is not really a blocker.
+20:37:02 <str4d> wrt content, is everyone happy with the front page as-is?
+20:37:13 <zzz> ok. just would love to see us get past the finish line on this. On Sept. 1st on tx, you announced it would go live in a week :)
+20:37:20 <dg> yes, str4d
+20:37:53 <str4d> zzz: yea, shortly after that I discovered the .py problem and ran out of time to fix.
+20:38:20 <zzz> ok thx for the update str4d. anything else on 5) ?
+20:38:22 <str4d> If .py -> restart is not working, then welterde_ (and every mirror operator) need to manually restart every time.
+20:38:33 <str4d> A few minor points:
+20:38:55 <str4d> When updating for a release, there are two locations to change:
+20:39:16 <str4d> i2p2www/__init__.py - CURRENT_I2P_VERSION
+20:39:38 <str4d> and i2p2www/pages/downloads/list.html - the hashes at the top.
+20:39:50 <zzz> maybe I can cut you short, no use training me until I need it, as I will ask again...
+20:40:07 <str4d> zzz: fair enough. But that ^ is it.
+20:40:30 <str4d> tl;dr - as soon as the .py problem is fixed, it is safe for live.
+20:40:31 <zzz> ok, I'll copypasta it, might lose it, might not.
+20:41:01 <kytv> (mine's updating/restarting FWIW (http://geti2pj2fl72u4m2.onion/ / http://kfri3jwfsi2uy7j3pbzykbbaoqoj4siyhf3hozln3wxcrkvvityq.b32.i2p/))
+20:41:04 <iRelay> Title: I2P Anonymous Network (at geti2pj2fl72u4m2.onion)
+20:41:16 <zzz> ok then let's ask welterde_ to help out here
+20:41:49 <zzz> ok thx for the update str4d. anything else on 5) ?
+20:42:06 <str4d> It's *much* simpler than current :-P
+20:42:13 <str4d> kytv: thanks - which script?
+20:42:16 <str4d> (but I'm done with 5)
+20:42:25 <zzz> bah. I got my sed script :)
+20:42:25 <str4d> Oh, one other point:
+20:42:34 <zzz> 6) Trac update - thanks to Meeh and kytv (brief)
+20:42:40 <str4d> I want us to think about the /research page
+20:42:42 <kytv> (yw)
+20:43:11 <str4d> Just putting the thought out.
+20:43:32 <kytv> str4d: it's a modification of the one in i2p.www.revamp that I made for future appliance. I can pastebin it later.
+20:43:35 <zzz> I just put this on the agenda to thank kytv and his helpers Meeh and welterde_ for moving, hosting, upgrading, managing, etc and getting it back up
+20:43:54 * dg thanks
+20:44:18 <str4d> kytv++
+20:44:20 <zzz> it's an important resource that got hammered by spam and then disabled by me and then broken by kytv, but we won't mention that part since we're thanking him...
+20:44:41 <efkt_> bwahaha
+20:44:52 * str4d had plans to help, until kytv sabotaged those plans and took the glory for himself ;-P
+20:45:17 <zzz> oh yeah sorry str4d you did do quite a lot too in the early stages
+20:45:42 <zzz> ok enough of that, back to the beatings
+20:45:47 <zzz> 7) Allow marketplaces on eepsite registration services? (zab)
+20:46:18 <zzz> I have 3 of them in the stats.i2p queue, everybody piling in after the silk road thing
+20:46:49 <str4d> Enforcing this is not trivial - we only know if the person registering makes it obvious in the domain or the about description.
+20:46:51 <dg> I don't think anybody will target $registrar for saying yes
+20:46:53 <zzz> we had several silkroad* registrations last year, I approved them at the time, none were around for long
+20:46:57 <Meeh> sorry I'm late, but here now
+20:47:15 <zzz> Meeh will be back to you shortly, we are on 7)
+20:47:21 <Meeh> np
+20:47:52 <zzz> zab what would you like to say about this
+20:48:00 <zzz> ^^ topiltzin
+20:48:00 <topiltzin> In the interest of full disclosure, I have significant investment in bitcoin. So I'm naturally supportive of anything that promotes use of bitcoin
+20:48:00 <zzz> enforcing is never a sure thing
+20:48:26 <topiltzin> in fact, part of the reason I'm working on i2p is to prepare for a possible future where anonymous marketplaces cannot use tor anymore
+20:48:42 <topiltzin> </end full disclosure>
+20:49:03 <zzz> I could reject either on 1) its illegal 2) brings attention we dont need or 3) i2p really isnt safe enough for markets
+20:49:13 <zzz> but all those are shaky reasons
+20:49:18 <dg> If 3), I don't know what we are safe for
+20:49:21 <str4d> But on the assumption that we can discover which domains are for marketplaces:
+20:49:22 <str4d> topiltzin ^
+20:49:35 <dg> I don't agree with ever saying "Hey, $group, come to us! We're like, safe and things!" but a little confidence is good too
+20:49:49 <Pseudonemo> as regards public perception, policies can help, even if they aren't perfectly enforcible, imo
+20:50:01 <topiltzin> 3) is something the operators of the marketplaces need to decide for themselves
+20:50:45 <Meeh> I agree with you there topiltzin, the operators choose
+20:50:46 <topiltzin> if 2) will happen it will happen regardless of addressbook policy
+20:50:49 <zzz> fyi the three I'm sitting on are silkroadreloaded.i2p, market.i2p, and freemart.i2p - you can jump to all thru stats.i2p
+20:51:02 <welterde_> still unable to figure out why restart is not working?
+20:51:35 <welterde_> (just arrived)
+20:52:00 <topiltzin> re 1) - that's the interesting one. I suggest the following policy: if a market place advertises $ILLEGAL_ACTIVITY then it does not indexed
+20:52:08 <str4d> welterde_: I haven't had time to investigate it.
+20:52:18 <topiltzin> but a market that simply says "anonymous marketplace" should not be banned automatically
+20:52:28 <welterde_> ic
+20:52:32 <str4d> +1 on re 1)
+20:52:34 <dg> most things here are anonymous
+20:52:40 <efkt_> fwiw I think its reasonable to not outright ban all marketplaces and use a case-by-case basis, disallowing support for those who wish to use stats.i2p for drugs, assassination, arms, etc focusing on what is unsavory and not neccessarily what is illegal.
+20:52:45 <Pseudonemo> I think topiltzin's suggestion is a reasonable compromise, fwiw
+20:52:59 <str4d> stats.i2p is a voluntary service, not an "official" addressbook.
+20:53:14 <zzz> I find it hard to get too worked up about drugs. If they're advertising CP or contract killings that's another story.
+20:53:27 * dg nods
+20:53:35 <str4d> Mmm.
+20:53:43 <Pseudonemo> str4d: it's still linked on the router console, which would be considered a tacit endorsement by many
+20:53:51 <Meeh> agreed
+20:54:00 <str4d> IMHO the standard sort of T&C we require for routerconsole would be fine.
+20:54:13 <dg> Pseudonemo: A link to a site that doesnt' really link to but can be contacted for info on a site people MAY not like? no
+20:54:32 <Pseudonemo> fair enough
+20:54:43 <zzz> I thnk I'll treat markets like forums and torrent sites, i.e. post a TOS and then I'll decide
+20:54:48 <str4d> (but that does not mean that a marketplace would be accepted for routerconsole, that is a separate decision)
+20:56:05 <topiltzin> that's fine. It would help if you publish some guidelines on what will NOT get indexed
+20:56:12 <zzz> thanks guys for your thoughts. this is more my problem than a project issue and I needed some advice.
+20:57:07 <dg> if you feel uneasy about it, you are within your rights not to allow them zzz
+20:57:24 <dg> but i think it's ok as long as it's not crossing any moral lines
+20:57:54 <zzz> it's all on http://stats.i2p/i2p/addkey.html - I guess I would just add 'markets' to the line about forums, trackers, file + image hosts...
+20:57:54 <zzz> ok enough on 7)
+20:57:54 <zzz> back around to:
+20:57:54 <zzz> 2) http://no.i2p services request (Meeh)
+20:57:54 <zzz> 2a) Add to default i2ptunnel jump list
+20:57:54 <zzz> 2b) Add to recommended addressbook subscriptions on FAQ
+20:57:56 <zzz> 2c) Add to registration help text on eepsite help
+20:58:08 <iRelay> Title: Add a Key (at stats.i2p)
+20:58:13 <zzz> take it away Meeh what you got for us?
+20:58:24 <iRelay> Title: no.i2p registration service (at no.i2p)
+20:59:06 <Meeh> well, I've setup a registration service with a TOS somewhat the same as stats.i2p, to help "decentralize" the naming service in I2P if needed
+20:59:16 <zzz> ping Meeh
+20:59:36 <Meeh> doesn't my messages get trough?
+21:01:45 <str4d> I hear ya
+21:01:45 <Meeh> ok good, I checked freenode so iRelay does too
+21:01:45 <zzz> got it, lag
+21:01:45 <zzz> yeah we really need more of everything and my registration service really stands out by itself
+21:01:45 <zzz> just checked, I set it up in January of 2008 after orion.i2p vanished (snif)
+21:02:08 <Meeh> yupp, so that's why I added it, to help "decentralize" it if needed
+21:02:27 <zzz> slow's inr.i2p service is great but his anything-goes policy isn't compatible with ours
+21:02:40 <Meeh> other than that I haven't thought much on it, so if people want to contribute with ideas, go ahead
+21:02:51 <zzz> if you can work together on his software base, but have something managed, that's great
+21:04:56 <dg> fwiw, inr.i2p is a thing.
+21:05:24 <zzz> anybody reviewed Meeh's TOS or have any thoughts?
+21:05:24 <topiltzin> I looked briefly, looked like copy-pasta of yours
+21:05:24 <Meeh> yes, I will publish my changes. I've updated it to django 1.5 and added export-alive.txt "view" support
+21:05:24 <topiltzin> +1 on no.i2p based on nothing but general Meeh awesomeness :)
+21:05:24 <Meeh> topiltzin: yes, it was copy paste :P
+21:05:24 <zzz> well, Meeh actually you have two pastas. one of slow's on no.i2p and one of mine on no.i2p/tos/
+21:05:24 <Meeh> I wrote some myself, and copied most of it, to make it as close to the official rules as possible, since I guessed zzz followed them closely
+21:05:24 <Meeh> yea, a mix
+21:05:24 <Meeh> can change it ofc
+21:05:26 <efkt_> +1 for no.i2p. Giving people more jump links and subscriptions is a plus. If there will be more sites registered with no.i2p I think it would be helpful to inform existing userbase about such a change.
+21:05:45 <Meeh> I didn't remove the policies that was "acceptable" from the original source
+21:05:46 <zzz> is it confusing to have overlapping stuff in two places?
+21:05:51 <zzz> actually 3 with /postkey/
+21:06:21 <Meeh> ok, I should fix that. but question is then, which is the best?
+21:06:30 <Meeh> or, the most agreeable
+21:06:37 <Meeh> which I can work more on
+21:06:40 <zzz> speaking from experience you have to shout the TOS loud and clear
+21:07:17 <zzz> fyi I'm getting about 75/month and rejecting about 3-5/month
+21:07:54 <zzz> any objections to 2a) or 2b) or 2c) ?
+21:08:16 <zzz> if not Meeh please do all the checkins yourself
+21:08:23 <Meeh> ok, I get about 1-2 a week, but often they double register
+21:08:26 <Meeh> both with you and me
+21:08:32 <Meeh> for example silkroadreloaded
+21:09:02 <zzz> anybody have anything else while I warm up the baffer?
+21:10:21 <efkt_> zzz: dg: kytv: topiltzin: str4d: Thank you. It means a lot to have support.
+21:10:56 <dg> Maybe we should talk about the roadmap next time and our plans.
+21:10:56 <kytv> hosting for our downloads, unless there's already a plan, needs to be fleshed out.
+21:10:56 <Meeh> ok. Then we say add to trunk? (no.i2p)
+21:10:56 <Meeh> seems like we're on a new topic already :P
+21:10:56 <kytv> +1 for no.i2p (yes, add to trunk)
+21:11:05 <zzz> oh, I'll note that I wrote down some rather obvious meeting policies on http://zzz.i2p/topics/1491 to make it clear anybody can schedule a meeting for anything at any time
+21:11:20 <iRelay> Title: zzz.i2p: Project Meetings (at zzz.i2p)
+21:11:25 <dg> efkt_: No problem. You're great!
+21:11:38 <zzz> yeah, downloads and roadmap may be good for a future meeting
+21:11:53 <dg> nothing for now from me
+21:11:59 * zzz emphatically ***BAFS*** the meeting closed
+21:12:12 <dg> :)
diff --git a/i2p2www/meetings/logs/228.rst b/i2p2www/meetings/logs/228.rst
new file mode 100644
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+I2P dev meeting, October 22, 2013 @ 20:00 UTC
+=============================================
+
+Quick recap
+-----------
+
+* **Present:**
+ dg,
+ efkt,
+ kytv,
+ Meeh,
+ Pseudonemo,
+ str4d
+ topiltzin,
+ welterde,
+ zzz