{% extends "_layout.html" %} {% block title %}I2P Development Meeting 209{% endblock %} {% block content %}
KillYourTV user 'slow' fits there
KillYourTV (and he's nearly always in #ru)
dg btw, #ru has users, #i2p-ru does not
The next meeting is scheduled for Tuesday, November 27 @ 19:30 UTC (7:30PM)
{% filter escape %} 20:03:41Meeting time? 20:03:48 It is! 20:04:01 checkout http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgJ7yck1qwY 20:04:01 Title: Android ICS on Raspberry Pi, Views: 139170, Rating: 99.0% 20:04:05 * dg gulps 20:04:15 okay then.. let's begin 20:04:22 our topics today are: 20:04:33 0) Welcome 20:04:40 (0a) Changing things up 20:04:47 (Meetings, etc) 20:05:00 (1) Network health 20:05:03 (1a) IRC 20:05:10 (1b) Growth (how do we get i2p out there?) 20:05:13 (2) IRL events (CCC, Cryptoparties..) 20:05:20 (3) - Merging Fux improvements into trunk 20:05:23 (4) Website 20:05:26 (4a) - Mirroring.. 20:05:33 (4b)- SSL 20:05:36 (5) - Progress 20:05:39 (6) - Next meeting 20:05:50 (7) - Any other notes from participants, etc 20:05:50 bit of a mouthful! 20:06:28 I'm hoping we have enough people here today 20:06:43 I'm trying to base things off of past meetings 20:07:11 so uh.. 20:07:26 First of all, do we have anyone from long enough ago to recap the changes (big ones, notable ons) 20:07:26 since the last meeting? 20:07:33 (It was Sept 8) 20:09:05 unlikely atm... could try a highlight all tho 20:09:24 Hear ye, Hear ye! 20:09:27 * asdfsdafsdafsd pounds gavel 20:09:35 I'm thinking maybe KillYourTV knows a little 20:09:53 I was told welt could be here too, so hopefully he can wave at some time 20:09:56 (no sign of zzz either) 20:10:09 This will be somewhat awkward without most of the team 20:10:23 The honorable asdfsdafsdafsd is now presiding 20:10:25 * weltende@freenode waves 20:10:37 :) 20:10:37 Okay 20:10:48 here 20:10:51 So, first of all, as some of you may know, this is the first meeting in 2 years 20:11:04 And even the last meeting was specalized 20:11:08 specialized* 20:11:30 I'm planning on booting up regular meetings to catch up on progress, etc, even if there is no big topic to discuss 20:12:01 wrt "change", I'm contemplating taking up Project Manager 20:12:04 or at least some sort of co-ordinator 20:12:28 I'm proud of the progress that was made with dr|z3d although sadly, I don't think he's ready to join in -dev again just yet (speak, even) 20:12:54 I can't comment on progress from the last 2 years since I haven't been here for that long 20:12:57 If somebody else could, I'd appreciate it 20:13:04 20:13:18 might have to wait for netsplit to unsplit 20:13:25 might be a good idea :-/ 20:13:36 hehe 20:13:51 While we wait, what happened dr|z3d? 20:13:54 what happened with* 20:13:57 * nom pokes the intertubes 20:14:13 There we go. 20:14:20 Let me paste what they missed. 20:15:42 this is painful haha 20:16:09 ok, netsplit folk: http://pastethis.i2p/show/2297/ 20:16:12 Title: Paste #2297 | LodgeIt! (at pastethis.i2p) 20:16:12 <+dg> I can't comment on progress from the last 2 years since I haven't been here for that long 20:16:15 <+dg> If somebody else could, I'd appreciate it 20:16:15 <+dg> 20:16:27 LaughingBuddah: alright 20:16:53 Basically, after dr|z3d was kicked out for a long period, etc etc, I raised the point that he should be unmuted in -dev as we're all on the same team here, etc 20:17:00 He doesn't seem to be up to joining us again yet though 20:17:06 Complication: KillYourTV badger darrob dg gatekeeper iRelay Meeh postman RN_ Shinobiwan slow sponge str4d albat asdfsdafsdafsd Astral2012_1 Biotrophy blitzkrieg christoph cipher__ dr4wd3- eight_ joepie95 k0e kytv|away LaughingBuddah lezz luminosus MTN nom operhiem1 PrivacyHawk psi SanguineRose soundwave thursday tycho usr w8rabbit woox2k Xtothec zzz meeting time people 20:17:14 Nono, I was wondering why he was kicked out 20:17:21 I wanted him to have the choice to in any case, even if he didn't *want to right now* 20:17:21 Oh 20:17:28 There were disagreements with the team a while back 20:17:35 I'm not here, I am invisible 20:17:38 I see 20:17:38 It turned into quite a big disagreement after small ones added up 20:17:53 It's lead to a pissing contest and a division of the community to an extent :-P 20:17:56 not nice 20:18:03 Alright. Proceed :) 20:18:06 ha! you may be invisible but we can hear you :P 20:18:17 I'll give the $person a few more seconds to appear.. 20:18:20 lies, you can not read what I am thinking right now! 20:18:27 * dg sits awkwardly 20:18:44 dg: yeah.. in dr|z3d and !dr|z3d mostly *cough* 20:18:48 Clearly nobody is wishing to recite history.. heh 20:18:51 * nom lounges awkwardly while reading SanguineRose's mind 20:18:57 Okay 20:19:16 meh, figure out history later when the historian decides to show up 20:19:23 so 20:19:23 (1) - network health 20:19:45 From what I've seen on the stats, we're doing okay on that front, although since the Russians left (rusleaks disappeared in general), there's been a drop 20:19:52 Returning to pre-rus levels (hah) 20:20:05 Hopefully zzz is available to comment on how we're doing on this front.. 20:20:29 imo network health is opaque, but based just on netsplits it could be better... 20:21:06 it's shaky but kytv and I last night found the bug introduced in 0.9.2 causing all the trouble 20:21:21 zab and I have doubts about something so simple causing the issues though 20:21:27 * nom :| at timing 20:21:30 ugh... split 20:21:36 >.> 20:21:48 zzz: what was the bug? 20:21:54 i guess that's the network speaking to us 20:22:13 we accidentally cut the capacity of the network in half. 20:22:53 haha 20:23:04 * dg didn't see much of a difference on the tunnel success rates but you seem a lot more confident about it fixing things 20:23:07 lol rather unfortunate bug 20:23:14 ^ 20:23:21 I suppose we're doing alright on that front 20:23:44 it's a network thing. You can't fix the network by just upgrading yourself. 20:23:50 of course one person upgrading to -10 will fix ALL the problems ;) 20:23:59 I can't comment for (1a) (IRC) because I've obviously been unable to contact badger 20:23:59 bah, I was too slow 20:23:59 KillYourTV: of course, haven't you heard of Java music? 20:24:02 *magic 20:24:02 pfft 20:24:13 (and i've been unable to contact postman, I was too late to get ech too..) 20:24:17 so that was a mess up on my part 20:24:51 (1b) then. 20:24:55 " 20:24:58 (1b) - Growth (how to make i2p grow more, developments with Russia (how do we get ourselves out there? outreach to big rus-sites?)) " 20:25:01 - if (style.equals("udp")) 20:25:01 + if (style.equals("SSU")) 20:25:01 Pretty broard 20:25:04 *** eight_ is now known as eight 20:25:07 ? that the bug? 20:25:24 (and there's a variable changed) 20:25:36 thatsit 20:25:58 What was the commit excuse for that, anyway? 20:25:58 (in 0.9.2) 20:26:59 regarding russian users, I think a big question is how is the #i2p-ru channel here doing? Are the russian users getting good support as compared to when english speakers come here and receive help 20:28:13 Do we have someone familiar with i2p that speaks russian? 20:28:24 Maybe even a dev? 20:29:02 * nom wanted to learn russian at one point, but never found the time... 20:29:21 user 'slow' fits there 20:29:32 and on a sidenote, german looks to be the 3rd largest country after russia and USA 20:29:35 slow hangs out there, right? 20:29:35 * nom thinks we need to go hunting for a russian and english speaking user who is dev inclined 20:29:38 (and he's nearly always in #ru) 20:29:53 nvm guess we found one 20:30:22 GOod 20:31:48 wrt growth generally, i would say working out all the network stability / performance bugs is a good step 20:32:09 also more content = more users = more content, sharing is caring and all that 20:32:28 What he said ^ 20:33:02 #i2p-ru is dead 20:33:02 zab is able to convert RU->EN but not EN->RU 20:33:16 btw, #ru has users, #i2p-ru does not 20:33:31 while working out bugs is great 20:33:42 We've certainly got a community based issue and I have not the slightest clue how to solve it 20:33:49 so yah.. everyone upload their media stashes to postman, and run high cap routers 20:34:13 i wish it was that simple 20:34:27 I guess this kind of includs IRL meetings 20:34:34 We've got a bunch of i2p-folk going to CCC this year 20:34:52 I think an "i2p workshop" is the best way to utilize this since it is too late to book a talk 20:35:02 lol yah increasing content is never simple, but good to remind people 20:35:18 dg: suggest, maybe you can talk to eche|on and postman about combining those two channels (redirect to one of them) 20:35:18 i2p is barely out there like Tor 20:35:53 k0e: noted, will look into it later, thanks :) 20:36:16 re irl community meetings, at conferences and such, yah there needs to be more of it. ideally with the organizers staying connected to those of us back home in i2p, with videos and blogs, etc 20:36:55 Not sure how we could reach out to the russians, but someone could try speaking to the censored websites 20:36:59 prominent ones which are controversial, etc 20:37:06 Sadly, rusleaks is absolutely gone 20:37:09 So we can't rely on that 20:37:34 I tried reaching out to the an*on folk but I was unable to get on their networks anonymously so that was a little redundant 20:38:21 Let's move on 20:38:36 i don't know about the reaching out, dg. does tor do that? this going from door to door advertising doesn't seem right. 20:38:43 Okay. 20:39:04 darrob: They don't do the door-to-door, and us doing that officially isn't right either. I was going to just encourage them a little. 20:39:22 LaughingBuddah: sure. 20:39:29 Doc improvements would help a lot. 20:39:41 * dg was thinking about that earlier 20:39:44 I wasn't sure on the standards of them 20:40:51 yah doc improvements, and also some rigorous security testing could go a long way towards user growth 20:41:25 actually, we missed out on security testing due to lack of recent docs 20:41:35 of course, we couldn't have done anything since doc improvement took a while but yeah 20:42:09 Right now, the only way to say i2p is safer than something heavily audited e.g Tor is to read all the code + design yourself 20:42:15 That's fine for those who are wise in that area but bs for users 20:42:25 i2p has had little academic research too 20:42:35 imo at least, most users of this kinda thing want to get into the details of how it works and how secure it is. the threadmodel page is useful, but their not the results of extensive testing 20:42:46 Of course, you can't exactly force academics to write papers on i2p.. 20:42:57 nom: I agree. 20:43:19 dg: that's not really true anymore imho 20:43:38 hm? 20:43:45 lol .... i suppose we could try to blackmail some grad students into writing papers on i2p \o/ 20:43:55 $5 wrench 20:44:08 ah.. just got an mail of an talk about i2p @ athens cryptoparty #0 20:44:24 oh, nice. I was wondering about Cryptoparty 20:44:27 Tor has been heavily featured at them 20:44:41 dg: there are a few papers about i2p.. (remember that tum i2p paper for example? ;) 20:44:50 I doubt many academics will write papers or advocate I2P.... they're all in league with the globalists 20:45:44 asdfsdafsdafsd: academics won't promote anything except their own software they are working on atm ;-) 20:45:48 i2p, not so much 20:46:28 The only papers I've seen about i2p are the french and correlation with headers/clocks 20:46:48 moving on 20:46:55 weltende... exactly 20:47:02 "(3) - Discussion regarding merging current fux with trunk " 20:47:14 soooo.... gsoc? seems like security testing would be a good thing for that 20:47:17 I'm not sure if anyone can give a real answer to this apart from zzz 20:47:35 *** str4d is now known as str4d_afk 20:47:46 for those of you not aware, fux is a branch of i2p dev'd by str4d among others with user interfaces improvements. Theme improvements, that kind of thing. 20:47:49 nom: nobody wants to do gsoc 20:47:56 *** str4d_afk is now known as str4d 20:48:13 nom: zzz is on trac as a mentor but he apparently doesn't want to have a student 20:48:24 sorry dg, all I know is 2-3 months old. last I heard, they were forking? 20:48:27 (not sure if correct, that's what I was told) 20:48:43 wrong 20:48:58 no kidding, probably why it hasn't got done, but its a resource that gives access to the kind of people that could actually do a security assessment 20:49:24 zzz: There was some discussion of a fork, it's kind of died down now as some people have had a change of heart. Not sure what's going to be going on there, I don't think anyone is. Regarding the current changes though, I feel they could be somewhat beneficial. Nothing massive/feature breaking in there, however. 20:49:34 zzz: also, wrong? 20:49:38 I am happy to mentor for GSoC 20:50:09 nom: Yup. 20:50:21 str4d: We could apply for next year, the application for 2010(?) is still up on trac. 20:50:25 re: gsoc: wrong as in I'm happy to help but I'm not going to be in charge and not going to do it myself. 20:50:43 totally different to what i heard 20:50:53 key word: heard, I suppose 20:51:05 relevant trac page: http://trac.i2p2.i2p/wiki/gsoc 20:51:32 dg re: fux, you're asking the wrong guy. I have no recent info. 20:51:39 imo fork is both exactly what is happening and exactly what is not happening, zzz you 'control' the official i2p.i2p branch in that you give out commit keys, but theres always gonna be people/groups writing their own features/code into i2p, if theres no interest in merging it stays a 'fork' but otherwise its not really 20:52:01 zzz: generally asking if you'd be ok with merging some of the themes, etc 20:52:04 AFAIK there is nothing stopping mentors being anon, but we need a contactable liason (not sure if they must be non-anon) and some tax form as an organization. 20:52:23 Right. 20:52:37 I'm fine with being a liason but I'm sure a few people would be. 20:52:56 Tax form .. ugh 20:53:05 We will need some people to agree to be the face of i2p 20:53:24 IIRC there was a USA-based one, or a Foreign-based one. 20:53:31 sadly we can't avoid that, LaughingBuddah.. 20:53:59 I don't want to be the guy trying to force people to give up anonymity and get up on stages but 20:54:18 We do need someone who wants to and can fulfill the job 20:54:41 dg the last I looked at it was months ago. It was a big grab bag of stuff and I had some objections. Nobody has since asked me to look again - or spilt out the bad from the good - or given me any updates - or mentioned any progress about addressing my issues.. Unless that happens I have no update for you and i assume they are either working on it or forking. 20:54:49 (Might not have been tax, but it was something financial) 20:54:52 Not sure what was done in 2010 for that. 20:55:19 zzz: Alright, if I can get them to talk about it etc, I may be able to get you an update. 20:55:27 just a note 20:55:30 http://trac.i2p2.i2p/wiki/gsoc/ideas 20:55:37 seems quite interesting 20:55:40 Title: gsoc/ideas – I2P (at trac.i2p2.i2p) 20:55:44 so I repeat, you are asking the wrong guy. If you want to know about status, ask the guys working on it, not me. 20:56:07 I was asking if you'd be okay with merging is all, if they co-operated. 20:56:19 I felt that the changes could benefit i2p somewhat. 20:56:34 welcome psi 20:56:41 ?? 20:56:48 dev meeting 20:56:55 ok 20:57:36 The application for GSOC seems solid 20:57:39 Could possibly reuse it 20:57:39 zzz: what were the issues you needed addressed? 20:59:54 There was an image in a dark theme that has since been replaced. Were there any other major issues? 21:00:17 ah yes... the assange character should've been removed for now 21:00:20 s/for/by 21:00:35 What's wrong with Assange? :P 21:00:46 the main thing in remember is regressions in legibility and color choices, esp. in snark. But it's been months since I looked at it 21:00:49 nom: you should try to find logs. it would be hard to recall or summarize. (for me, anyway, and i tried to give feedback, too). 21:00:56 I felt it was a big step backwards 21:01:18 http://killyourtv.i2p/irclogs/%23i2p-dev.2012-08-23.log.html 21:01:21 Title: #i2p-dev logs for Thursday, 2012-08-23 (at killyourtv.i2p) 21:01:32 seems too late to enter gsoc this time now 21:01:43 regardless... i think we need a "real life" UI testing mechanism that isn't totally subjective 21:01:47 or uh, next year's are not open (what i mean) 21:01:54 psi: exactly 21:01:57 this is where users like Zorya come into play 21:02:12 Zorya especially is the perfect feedback tool for UI stuff 21:02:35 re assange, imo hes a cool dude, but as he 'officially' has nothing to do with i2p, we shouldn't be using his image on stuff... unless its like something related to him or wikileaks... 21:02:38